The jury has reached a verdict in Jennifer Crumbley's manslaughter trial over the 2021 Oxford High School shooting carried out by her son Ethan Crumbley.
“Hey son, here’s a firearm, let’s go kill something, systematically eviscerate and skin it, and then consume its flesh while taking joy and pride in each step of the process. Oh, don’t ever do this to humans or dogs.” I dunno, seems pretty weird to me.
“Let’s take these plant babies and grind them into a pulp, drown it, let it be eaten by a bunch of tiny monsters until they fart enough gas, and then burn it” also sounds kinda weird. Welcome to the universe; shit’s a little whack.
So? It’s patently obvious that millions of people go hunting every year without turning into mass murderers. Pointing out logical fallacies isn’t an argument.
It’s patently obvious that millions of people go hunting every year without turning into mass murderers.
I never said they do.
Pointing out logical fallacies isn’t an argument.
I wasn’t staking any claims in this argument. Just pointing out how yours is invalid.
I did so because it’s constructive criticism to promote better reasoning. But of course you’re too immature to receive constructive criticism, so you defensively deflect it instead.
Edit: oh wait you’re not even the user I was speaking to…
I think it was an appeal to natural order, not tradition.
One time after GPS became pretty well available a court somewhere was called upon to decide whether, now that we have this cheaply available magical system of maritime navigation, is it negligent to crash into the rocks and destroy the vessel because you were still using a sextant and navigating by the stars? I mean, that’s the way we’ve always done it. That’s an appeal to tradition.
I disagree. It was clearly an appeal to tradition, given his specific reference to human history (traditional human hunting behavior). But the appeal to nature is also a logical fallacy anyway.
I’m not even condemning hunting, btw. It’s necessary in some cases for healthy animal populations.
This is far past the point of mattering, but the actual thing I was targeting was the statement “seems pretty weird” by stating that in the context of human history, hunting is objectively not weird, that is to say, unusual or abnormal, at all.
And I mean, if we’re trying to entertain logical rigor, I don’t think the original “appeal to vibes” is exactly a good start.
I’m guessing that user would probably find CAFO/factory farm supplied nuggets just as “weird”/bad. If not worse. Certainly more cruelty there vs hunting.
Not my point. The comment I replied to was highlighting that killing and preparing your own food is perverse, as compared to normal food shopping practices. They made no claim of veganism, so I didn’t go there.
Veganism is great for a lot of folks, but before that, I think meat eaters should be fully aware, accepting and ready to see how meat is prepared. And they should be ready to do it themselves if they are willing to eat meat.
I’m pretty sure they didn’t use firearms millenia[sic] ago. They had dysentery, though, maybe try that instead. That’s more authentic if you really want to connect.
You’re right. Probably won’t try dysentery. There is something intimate and connective in how we choose to procure and prepare food, and in being alone and quiet in remote wilderness, relying on our senses and wit, strength, respect for nature and its fruits. I don’t want to do exactly as the indigenous people did, or even as the colonists did. Going hunting once or twice a year is enough for me. Part of a tradition.
None of what you said is clever or addressed that killing animals, ripping off their skin, tearing out their viscera, and eating their flesh is creepy, especially given the amount of planning, tools, etc, that is requires. Don’t conflate that with foraging watercress. It’s a bad, lazy argument.
You kill for pleasure. I don’t care if it’s tradition, religion, or whatever other excuse you tell yourself, you kill for pleasure. And that’s creepy. And I’m not interested in continuing his or any further conversation with you.
I don’t think hunting animals is creepy at all and i have never fired a weapon in my life. I eat animal meats every day, is that somehow less creepy? Because someone else did all those ‘creepy’ steps?
Oh boy, wait until you hear about this type of animal called omnivores. They can survive off vegtable but they still hunt and eat meat because obviously they’re evil strange and un-natural.
You’re calling something that happens in nature all the time un natural then asking that I don’t bring up nature. Okay buddy, want me to not bring up everything that makes tour argument ridiculous too? Or just the ones you don’t have a canned response for?
“Hey son, here’s a firearm, let’s go kill something, systematically eviscerate and skin it, and then consume its flesh while taking joy and pride in each step of the process. Oh, don’t ever do this to humans or dogs.” I dunno, seems pretty weird to me.
You’re loosely describing most of human history.
“Let’s take these plant babies and grind them into a pulp, drown it, let it be eaten by a bunch of tiny monsters until they fart enough gas, and then burn it” also sounds kinda weird. Welcome to the universe; shit’s a little whack.
Anything sounds weird if you abstract it enough.
Yeah Nathan Pyle has made a whole living out of doing this with Strange Planet.
To play devils advocate, you’re arguing an appeal to tradition, which is a logical fallacy.
Just because we’ve historically operated in a certain way, it does not mean it is morally permissible behavior.
The appeal to tradition has been used to argue in favor of slavery, racism, and a lot of other horrendous human behavior.
So? It’s patently obvious that millions of people go hunting every year without turning into mass murderers. Pointing out logical fallacies isn’t an argument.
I never said they do.
I wasn’t staking any claims in this argument. Just pointing out how yours is invalid.
I did so because it’s constructive criticism to promote better reasoning. But of course you’re too immature to receive constructive criticism, so you defensively deflect it instead.
Edit: oh wait you’re not even the user I was speaking to…
I think it was an appeal to natural order, not tradition.
One time after GPS became pretty well available a court somewhere was called upon to decide whether, now that we have this cheaply available magical system of maritime navigation, is it negligent to crash into the rocks and destroy the vessel because you were still using a sextant and navigating by the stars? I mean, that’s the way we’ve always done it. That’s an appeal to tradition.
I disagree. It was clearly an appeal to tradition, given his specific reference to human history (traditional human hunting behavior). But the appeal to nature is also a logical fallacy anyway.
I’m not even condemning hunting, btw. It’s necessary in some cases for healthy animal populations.
This is far past the point of mattering, but the actual thing I was targeting was the statement “seems pretty weird” by stating that in the context of human history, hunting is objectively not weird, that is to say, unusual or abnormal, at all.
And I mean, if we’re trying to entertain logical rigor, I don’t think the original “appeal to vibes” is exactly a good start.
What? How is that weirded than “let’s go to mcyd’s and get you some nuggets”
I’m guessing that user would probably find CAFO/factory farm supplied nuggets just as “weird”/bad. If not worse. Certainly more cruelty there vs hunting.
Both are awful. Go vegan!
Not my point. The comment I replied to was highlighting that killing and preparing your own food is perverse, as compared to normal food shopping practices. They made no claim of veganism, so I didn’t go there.
Veganism is great for a lot of folks, but before that, I think meat eaters should be fully aware, accepting and ready to see how meat is prepared. And they should be ready to do it themselves if they are willing to eat meat.
You’re just turning people away from your cause by inserting it where it isn’t relevant.
Turning people away lol, like there’s a gate. Go vegan or die trying.
For me hunting is about connecting with the people who lived on the land for millenia before I came along.
I’m pretty sure they didn’t use firearms millenia[sic] ago. They had dysentery, though, maybe try that instead. That’s more authentic if you really want to connect.
You’re right. Probably won’t try dysentery. There is something intimate and connective in how we choose to procure and prepare food, and in being alone and quiet in remote wilderness, relying on our senses and wit, strength, respect for nature and its fruits. I don’t want to do exactly as the indigenous people did, or even as the colonists did. Going hunting once or twice a year is enough for me. Part of a tradition.
“Intimate” snuff, skinning, eviscerating, and consumption is not making this any less weird.
Well no, not when you make it weird. That’s a you thing.
Could be harvesting watercress from a drainage ditch or going somewhere remote to forage whatever. Obtaining, preparing, and eating food, is intimate.
intimate adjective in·ti·mate ˈin-tə-mət 2 : of a very personal or private nature
Doesn’t get much more personal than eating, lest we’re talking about eating people. See, now it’s me that’s making it weird.
None of what you said is clever or addressed that killing animals, ripping off their skin, tearing out their viscera, and eating their flesh is creepy, especially given the amount of planning, tools, etc, that is requires. Don’t conflate that with foraging watercress. It’s a bad, lazy argument.
You kill for pleasure. I don’t care if it’s tradition, religion, or whatever other excuse you tell yourself, you kill for pleasure. And that’s creepy. And I’m not interested in continuing his or any further conversation with you.
I don’t think hunting animals is creepy at all and i have never fired a weapon in my life. I eat animal meats every day, is that somehow less creepy? Because someone else did all those ‘creepy’ steps?
No; go learn about industrial meat production.
You’re so cool and smart the best word you can come up with is “creepy.” Bud, you’re a straight up joke. Is fishing creepy too?
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Oh boy, wait until you hear about this type of animal called omnivores. They can survive off vegtable but they still hunt and eat meat because obviously they’re evil strange and un-natural.
Exactly. They don’t have to kill, but they do so for pleasure. But miss me with that argument from nature bs.
You’re calling something that happens in nature all the time un natural then asking that I don’t bring up nature. Okay buddy, want me to not bring up everything that makes tour argument ridiculous too? Or just the ones you don’t have a canned response for?