• IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    I sure am

    Building trades have been severely negatively impacted by a housing boom that created milions upon milliions of subcontractors who have no idea what happens before or after their specific trade. Everyone is just covering others’ mistakes. 50 years ago one company did all aspects of the building; 35 years ago that stopped.

    • winterayars@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Yeah i was recently looking for someone to work on windows and finding someone who does work in the traditional way is not easy. They’re still out there, but for every one of them there’s ten hack shops using minimum wage labor for everything. Even then, the real good techniques just seem like lost technology. They didn’t get passed down to our generation.

      • IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        It gets frustrating for me also because I’d like to do high caliber work but there’s not enough of a market to keep myself busy with it. There are other factors involved as well, but I have moved away from artisanal work to utilitarian stuff between kitchen and bath remodels.

    • Squizzy@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Standards have improved 10 fold, I moved from a house built 70 years ago to a new build. It is completely different, air tight, less moisture, more efficient heating, permanent hot water, triple glazed windows. Literally everything is more secure and improved. There is nothing an old house can do a new one can’t.

      • IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Those are all accessories. The only build difference would be whether or not a moisture barrier was applied to the framing, either on the inside when insulated or outside with Tyvek.

        • Squizzy@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Heating is an accessory? The new tech associated with central heating compared to 50 years ago is night and day. The building materials have changed, the regulations have changed. Houses have better insulation, soundproofing, fire guarding, plumbing, electrical circuitry like how is this even a discussion.

          • IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Lemme let you in on another secret: modern housing has inferior framing compared to 50 years ago. The reason for this is that the housing boom that started in the 80s and into the 90s demanded more lumber than the supply could keeo up with so trees were hybridized to grow faster with a more erratic Heartwood grain and have spent less time in the kiln so they haven’t dried properly. The high moisture content left in this inferior grain wood has caused lots of buckling, or bowing, excessive settling, and other associated issues. When a 2x4 is ripped on a table saw it does not turn into two equal pieces, it’s springs apart into two twisted and bowed pieces. This is the behavior of an inferior product.

            I believe it was in 1992 or possibly 93 that the CEOs of weyerhauser, Georgia Pacific, and one other manufacturer of masonite siding we’re convicted of fraud and sent to prison because they had been changing out the test samples of masonite siding in Dade county Florida in order to justify selling masonite as a building code compliant siding material. Masonite was then banned in favor of cementitious siding board. Masonite also led to a vinyl siding boom…fake plastic to cover up the problem and give insects a new home. So we at least have an improvement in siding materials now, but not over brick or stone.

            Now, there ARE ways to make the modern home superior in construction by using steel studs, heated concrete slabs, on-demand water heaters combined with solar tanks, blown foam insulated walls, and condensation-capture cooling tubes, but it is very expensive and requires a very talented labor pool.

            • Squizzy@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Oh we don’t have timber framed housing here, my house is concrete and the 50 year old house I was in, probably closer 100, was a stone cottage.

              The new house has exactly those things you listed. I’m fairly certain they have to be in all new builds where I am. Though the solar is optional, we have a heat pump instead.

          • IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Heating is a thing applied to a home. Many homes have none (like mine). Yes, it is an accessory. That accessory has improved, but it has nothing to do with the building itself.

            It’s a discussion because I am a builder and have been all my life and I have worked in most of those trades individually for three to five years each and I know what I’m talking about.

            • Squizzy@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              That’s a load of nonsense, experienced builder or not. Heating is part of building a house just like the other plumbing, electrical and joinery work.

              • IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                And yet, it isn’t. It’s an accessory applied to homes in zones that need heating and AC. You can retrofit different brands after the fact. You can remove and replace parts. It’s no more part of the house than an electric range is.

                Again, I live in a $1.5M Mediterranean style 4BR 4.5 bath house. There is ZERO heating or AC anywhere in it. It is an unnecessary accessory.

                • Squizzy@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  I’m very happy for you in your made up home, but central heating and plumbing and requirements for construction where I live.

                  It is definitely more a part of the house than an appliance in that it is built into the house during it’s construction by the builders. Ranges are not the same as indoor plumbing, are you sure you’re a builder? You can add and remove walls after the fact too but it doesn’t make them an accessory in the sense that you are trying to claim.

                  • IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    My “made up home” is in a place of perpetual summer. Those places exist. I’m gonna stop arguing with you here because you truly have no idea what you’re talking about, much like the Facebook redneck who is an epidemiology expert when he’s not cooking at Waffle House.

      • uis@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        air tight, less moisture, more efficient heating, permanent hot water, triple glazed windows.

        And why “I moved from unmaintained house” is argument against old housing? I have all those things in 50 years old house.

        • Squizzy@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          So you gave your old building a retrofit with new technologies… more in line with today’s standards and have seen results more in line with today’s standards.

          What is your argument here?

          • uis@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            So you gave your old building a retrofit with new technologies… more in line with today’s standards and have seen results more in line with today’s standards.

            So you understand this!

            • Squizzy@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              So modern building standards, materials, technologies and completed products are better than old?

              I don’t see many people taking out the cavity insulation to make their homes more old style.

              • irmoz@reddthat.com
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                1 year ago

                Your argument only defeats theirs if their argument was “old buildings are perfect and will never benefit from renovation”

                But they didn’t say that, did they?

                • Squizzy@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Not in so many words but they did say “When these bad boys are maintained they can outperform new apartments”

                  I didn’t argue against them being capable of improvement, I’m arguing against the idea that they can outperform newer type buildings.